Re: [dcburners] DC BURNERS CONSENT CULTURE STATEMENT

dlitlover@gmail.com - You have exactly framed the problem. Very well said.
~ Matt

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Ineedaname
wrote:

> This whole thing is amazing. Thank you, DC Regionals for leading this
> incredibly necessary conversation. This community has a serious consent
> issue, and it is high time we look it in it's eyes and say, NO MORE.
>
> This thread illustrates the need for better understanding. Rape culture
> is real, victim culture is not. Any unwanted touching is ASSAULT by law.
> In this community, victims who speak out are often ostricized. My personal
> experiences have taught me that we are living in a conflict-averse society
> where friends would rather demoize the victims as "liars" and "bitches"
> than deal with the predators. Even when there is no question over whether
> or not it happened, there is still external judgement about how it should
> be interpreted...by the victim.
>
> Furry clothes and fucked-upedness are not excuses. Beautiful naked women
> are not an excuse. Confusion is not an excuse. We have a problem . Thank
> you DC, for caring.
>
> With love and some faith restored,
> D
>
> PS- Liz nailed it about the list. This list was a central piece of our
> community. It was open to all. We had many amazing events and workshops
> and we would use it to tell each other about cool things happening in DC.
> Before the full transition to FB, you didnt need to know somebody to get an
> invitation.
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 1, 2015, monster wrote:
>
>> The starting point is this. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TOUCH ME WITHOUT MY
>> CONSENT. This is actually the law - ANY unconsented to touching is
>> ASSAULT, and a crime (in some cases consent is implied, for example if you
>> are playing sports, you are consenting to co ntact w/in the boundaries of
>> the game, but you are not consenting contact outside of that, like a punch
>> in the face during a football game).
>>
>> As it happens, I often dont want to be hugged or touched by strangers.
>> When I was at Catharsis, one of the Veterans there asked me very politely
>> if it would be ok if he gave me a hug. I said sure. I actually thought,
>> wow, that was nice. (and that this guy could teach some burners a thing or
>> two about consent.)
>>
>> Of course, I am not equating unwanted hugs with rape (this shouldn't need
>> to be said, but i'm afraid it might). But the idea that someone else gets
>> to, or should be able to, decide whether they can touch my body, not me,
>> creates a slippery slope...and pisses me off.
>>
>> This isn't about being "PC," this is about respecting my bodily
>> integrity.
>>
>
> --
> Full post: http://dcburners.org/node/180
> Manage my subscriptions: http://dcburners.org/mailinglist
> Stop emails for this post:
> http://dcburners.org/mailinglist/unsubscribe/180
>
>

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matt Brown
brownmattc@gmail.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm glad that this issue is being addressed and I look forward to seeing
what collectively we can come up with as a community. If we can teach each
other that MOOP is not cool, surely we can educate ourselves not to rape
and grope each other? I think that there is a TON we can do on the
education side to help make all of us aware of what is acceptable or not
acceptable in our community and friendships.

The devil is in the details I suppose, for even within this thread it is
clear that the lines of what offends each of us is drawn in different
places. And there is a big open question in my mind about how we can
collectively, as a community only loosely affiliated with each other
because we like to do fun sh$t and occasionally burn stuff, do to address
this issue after an incident occurs?

To be completely honest, I have also struggled with how to address this
issue on a personal level when I have heard of such incidences usually
through rumor and hearsay. I have struggled with whether it is my business
at all to address the issue with either party when I haven't been
personally contacted by the any of the affected parties.

The conversation is so important though, and I think if anyone can make
progress on this tricky issue it is the DC Burners.

xoxo (but only with your consent),
Surprise!

P.S. I am sorry if I have ever violated your boundaries or trust. I can
think of times when I was indeed a perpetrator (especially if we are
talking about not asking before giving a hug) and so I know that my hands
are not completely clean on this issue.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 12:54 PM, brownmattc wrote:

> dlitlover@gmail.com - You have exactly framed the problem. Very well
> said.
> ~ Matt
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Ineedaname
wrote:
>
>> This whole thing is amazing. Thank you, DC Regionals for leading this
>> incredibly necessary conversation. This community has a serious consent
>> issue, and it is high time we look it in it's eyes and say, NO MORE.
>>
>> This thread illustrates the need for better understanding. Rape culture
>> is real, victim culture is not. Any unwanted to uching is ASSAULT by law.
>> In this community, victims who speak out are often ostricized. My
>> personal experiences have taught me that we are living in a conflict-averse
>> society where friends would rather demoize the victims as "liars" and
>> "bitches" than deal with the predators. Even when there is no question
>> over whether or not it happened, there is still external judgement about
>> how it should be interpreted...by the victim.
>>
>> Furry clothes and fucked-upedness are not excuses. Beautiful naked women
>> are not an excuse. Confusion is not an excuse. We have a problem . Thank
>> you DC, for caring.
>>
>> With love and some faith restored,
>> D
>>
>> PS- Liz nailed it about the list. This list was a central piece of our
>> community. It was open to all. We had many amazing events and workshops
>> and we would use it to tell each other about cool things happening in DC.
>> Before the full transition to FB, you didnt need to know somebody to get an
>> invitation.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 1, 2015, monster wrote:
>>
>>> The starting point is this. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TOUCH ME WITHOUT MY
>>> CONSENT. This is actually the law - ANY unconsented to touching is
>>> ASSAULT, and a crime (in some cases consent is implied, for example if you
>>> are playing sports, you are consenting to co ntact w/in the boundaries of
>>> the game, but you are not consenting contact outside of that, like a punch
>>> in the face during a football game).
>>>
>>> As it happens, I often dont want to be hugged or touched by strangers.
>>> When I was at Catharsis, one of the Veterans there asked me very politely
>>> if it would be ok if he gave me a hug. I said sure. I actually thought,
>>> wow, that was nice. (and that this guy could teach some burners a thing or
>>> two about consent.)
>>>
>>> Of course, I am not equating unwanted hugs with rape (this shouldn't
>>> need to be said, but i'm afraid it might). But the idea that someone else
>>> gets to, or should be able to, decide whether they can touch my body, not
>>> me, creates a slippery slope...and pisses me off.
>>>
>>> This isn't about being "PC," this is about respecting my bodily
>>> integrity.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Full post: http://dcburners.org/node/180
>> Manage my subscriptions: http://dcburners.org/mailinglist
>> Stop emails for this post:
>> http://dcburners.org/mailinglist/unsubscribe/180
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Matt Brown
> brownmattc@gmail.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> --
> Full post: http://dcburners.org/node/180
> Manage my subscriptions: http://dcburners.org/mailinglist
> Stop emails for this post:
> http://dcburners.org/mailinglist/unsubscribe/180
>
>